The Slog Master w/ Dylan Bost | Ep. 199

David and Gary sit down with Dylan Clayton-Bost, CEO and Co-Founder of Sunny HQ, to talk about the realities of running a WordPress hosting company in the AI era.

They dig into how security is evolving as AI reshapes both the tools and the threats, what it really means to build trust in a space that’s often anything but simple, and why Dylan proudly calls himself a “slog master.”

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David Baxter has been designing, building, and advising startups and businesses for over ten years. His passion, knowledge, and brutal honesty have helped dozens of companies get their start.

In Biz/Dev, David and award-winning Creative Director Gary Voigt talk about current events and how they affect the world of startups, entrepreneurship, software development, and culture.

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Transcript

[00:00:03] David: Hi everyone. Welcome to the Biz Dev Podcast, the podcast about developing your business. I'm David Baxter, your host, joined Per Usual by Mr. Gary Voight. What's up, man?

[00:00:11] Gary: Hey, how you doing this week?

[00:00:13] David: I'm good. We're about to get drenched, drowned drunk by a hurricane this week, so it's good. I feel like I'm living in your neck of the woods.

[00:00:21] Gary: Just, I feel bad for Jamaica. They've been sitting in a category four for a day now, and it's gonna be another day before they get a category five going right through 'em. So I. 

[00:00:30] David: It's crazy. Crazy. Yeah. I'm not gonna complain about our little rainstorm. It's not nearly that bad way to make me feel bad. Thanks so much. Appreciate

[00:00:38] Gary: Jerk. 

[00:00:39] David: that. More importantly, we are joined by Dylan Bost, who is the co-founder and CEO of Sunny hq. Hello, sir. Welcome.

[00:00:48] Dylan: Hello. Thank you. How are you?

[00:00:51] David: I cannot complain. Alright, so tell me a little bit about Sonny.

[00:00:56] Dylan: Sunny HQ is a I like to say we're a, it's a people company, so we're a technology based company that is, that develops and host websites. For the most part we're doing a different thing where it's a concierge, white glove level of hosting, management, maintenance, where it's soup to nuts.

It's very different in the marketplace. It's interesting, even after eight years to say that we. I can't find anyone that does what we do. There are companies more on the service side and then there are of course companies that most people know on the hosting side, but very rarely do you find those companies that are doing that.

At the same time, the reason why I say we're a people company is because, even after all the time and effort we've spent to build a really incredible platform, specifically for the WordPress environment and for WordPress hosting, to me, the most valuable part of what we do, and if you asked our customers, would be the customer service.

We try very hard and we're diligent to create a system in which doesn't require meaning. We do so many things in the backend that support issues are kept to a minimum. But. We realized the importance of, for our customers and our customers are ranging from global companies to small mom and pops, the common denominator.

It's interesting that companies that understand they need to run their business, don't staff for the, for the few hours that are needed. Let's say you. 10 to 20 hours a month to run their website. They don't staff that correctly. And that's where we come in. And it's really important that we are human.

And I say that in the true sense of not necessarily with ai, we can get to that in a different question, but but I've found in the marketplace so many times, a lot of the big players you're dealing with, people who talk at a very high technical level. And our customers don't get that.

If something's wrong with the website. It's just like most of you have, have talked to your family members and they're like, my phone doesn't work, or this doesn't work. And in reality, there's something in there, but you need to help them arrive at what's not working in order to troubleshoot the problem. And for us, that was a big gap in the marketplace years ago. Where to see, okay, you've got this great website, you spent $50,000 on it and it's running really slow. And they ask their host. The host. really, has some very technical answers and then they have to find somebody that can maybe do that.

And then there's a lot of finger pointing where we come in and it's really easy. We make it super simple. We're responsible for 100% of the technical functionality of the website. And the client is responsible for the content. We even help them with the con, we don't build, make content, but we'll help them get it to the website. So it's, to us, it's very simple. It's really about making sure that we have happy customers. If they're happy, we're happy.

[00:03:47] David: So you are marketing yourself as a. WordPress hosting company. That seems like the, so when I think of that, I think of WP Engine and all those big boys, that's who we've used in the past. What's, they're obviously much larger companies 'cause they service thousands, tens of thousands of site and they're very do it yourself.

You are, do you not build to do that at all? If I am technical, can I come to y'all or is that, then I should go to them versus you? Does that make sense?

[00:04:19] Dylan: No. Yeah, you actually, you, you can, the, I guess the, not the argument we make, but the value proposition we have is that, in, and in cases we have, for instance, we have large e-commerce websites that do have technical staff. But for the, if you've run a website, you understand there are, to me, a website is actually one of the most complicated pieces of marketing, communications that there is.

Because it involves so many different skill sets. So even if you have a high performing e-commerce website and you have a staff, you have backend data guys and you have some other guys, the reality is. The day-to-day operations. So the speed that the website's running the continuity of the website, backup, security, updating plugins, plugin conflicts, those are all this.

And from what I've seen, and this is from 20 years from I've, what I've seen, those skills fall in come purgatory where marketing doesn't want to deal with it. Really it guys don't wanna deal with it. And most of the heavy lifting website operators, it's below their skill level.

And so they don't study it and they don't know how to fix those things. And so in every case, we fit in really well because we're able to do all of those things for. $200 a month, $300 a month. If it's a large site, four or $500 a month. And they're contrasting that with I'm spending $150 an hour on this person who, I can't even tell how much time he's doing those things.

When we really sit down and do an audit, sometimes. Our customers before us are spending two, $3,000 a month for the same thing that we do in $200 a month, because we do it every single day. That's the thing, if we have a few hundred websites and this website has had an issue running one specific plugin, then we can, can fix that in five seconds across all other, someone else comes and says, oh, my chat plugin, we, or we can't figure out what's going on here. We say, oh yeah, that chat plugin has got a known issue here, we fix it. And that's a real difference. So when you talk about a WP Engine and we hosted with, we used to buy their services and resell them under our kind of umbrella. But what I learned even with WP Engine, is the reality is. If those guys to us, we have a different hosting partner now that manages just server hardware. The WP Engine guys, with complex issues could not help us even with things that were super complex or if they were plugin related, they were hands off. And that doesn't help us because at the end of the day, if we're trying to fix something really quickly then, and we're reaching out to plugin developers and these guys, it helps to have a partner that can help troubleshoot things. And with the Kins and the WP Engines. In that area, we found time and time again that they would just point to one thing.

Sometimes it wasn't that but they would point to one thing and we would run down a road for days. Now we do that same thing with a close working relationship. And we've really we've helped. This hosting partner who before us and still to this day run only large websites in the financial industry and in healthcare and things like that.

So we're buying large chunks from them, but we work with them. We don't lean on them for any customer support as it relates to our customers. But the cool thing is if we have an issue where a process is running crazy, right? Something that if you ask WP Engine, you'd run around in circles. We get an answer in minutes.

It's really incredible. So they have the same kind of ethos that we do in regards to how they take care of their customers. They realize that every minute they spend is just a longer period of time before someone's got something done. And so it's, that's the interesting thing. But as it relates to, I think like you said with.

Higher end customers know. If you look at it like we're provisioning out the things that, that are really below what you would want to, what you would want to tie up your guys who are managing your marketing or managing the overall, data transfer between these e-commerce systems in this, we're dealing with all the day-to-day things that help the website run faster.

[00:08:29] David: So let's back up a little bit. How did Sonny come to be Like, what was the problem you were trying to solve originally?

[00:08:36] Dylan: It, I guess maybe it didn't, it wasn't a problem. It was something I noticed where, so before sending hq, I ran a branding marketing agency and loved it. We worked for a few thousand customers early two thousands, right? We had developed at that time as a part of our company, a content management system, pre WordPress, and we noticed right away how it. That brought us a lot of customers. The next question, of course is where's this hosted? Before a lot of big hosts were available, we bought servers and we essentially were a turnkey solution, even as a branding agency for websites. And honestly, I looked up after a few years and I, we were doing a large amount of business in beautiful reoccurring revenue that was purely objective.

Website either works or it doesn't work. Very easy marketing, advertising, subjective takes forever to get it done. And so later, as I started to spin that company down, the thing I noticed is that with the advent of WordPress that I on my own could manage 50 websites, a hundred websites, and then instead of a staff of five to six people, I literally from purchasing services and building. Caching systems and things like that, that were proprietary and backup systems that I essentially could do what five or six people could do. And so more of it was recognizing early on that what I saw people wanted. Because our customers at that company came to us and stayed with us forever, is they didn't mind paying 200, $300 a month because there were no questions.

If the website, if they had any problem with DNS, if they had any problem with any of the content on their website or how was operating, they literally called one place.

More of me recognizing that I had never seen that in the market. On the other side, if I was hosting my website with the WP Engine, for instance, if I have a problem with my website and I don't know how to fix it, it would take. Forever to get that fixed because WP Engine doesn't fix it. They're gonna point me to somebody else, or I've gotta go hire a third party to fix it. And so that was really the main thing, is I realized that it's not for everyone. The reality is companies that realize their time is valuable and instead of spending five hours to do something that's not core to their business. Like running their website, they should, they're spending that five hours on their business, then they're gaining more business and then it's costing them less than the cost of a cell phone bill to manage their website.

[00:11:09] David: So how does. So I've done dozens of web WordPress sites and we've actually moved away from WordPress 

[00:11:19] Dylan: Mm-hmm. 

[00:11:19] David: we were tired of dealing with the security. That is a constant thing of WordPress.

So how have you dealt with that? It's like we were, like, we did church sites there for a while. We had several church, which have a couple, but we were doing, and they were constantly getting hacked.

It was very strange. It was, but it was specifically church websites were, and, but we were noticing all of our CU customers would get. We had to have so much security and backups and this and the other, because that was a constant thing. So we went over to Webflow as the solve for that. How do you guys deal with that on a large level?

[00:11:52] Dylan: It's actually a lot easier than you'd think. But we're handling it at the network level and the server level. So most people right host at a WP Engine or a GoDaddy, they're in a shared environment. So there are already general weaknesses because the website's gonna be slow.

A lot of plugins, so backup plugins and caching plugins and security plugins.

While things like WP Security are great, if you don't have any other options, the reality is there's some very simple things that can secure a website. We're doing login limits, for instance. Just a simple thing like a login limit can prohibit the majority of security issues Then. What we do regularly with the server team is those guys are tapped in at a higher level to any exploits that come out at the server level. So our, the server level is tight, the network level is tight, and the application level is tight all back of house. So where most hosting companies say. Basically, here's an empty box that's on the internet, or here's this space.

Now you have to secure it. They're, man, they may have security level on the server, but that's it. And we're doing simple things like enforcing strong passwords on WordPress. It can be a problem for some customers that come in the beginning, but we explain at the end of the day, for us to warranty this. You gotta have a strong password. I can tell you in now eight years, we've had three instances over three or 400 customers that have been, I guess you could say, hack. They've had a hack and malware's been installed 100% of the time. In all three instances, it's been a password on the customer side. So an admin

password on the customer side. And then the cool thing is what we're doing is we have the experience. We're able to UNH hack those sites in less than two hours. So it happens. They got a page that's pointing to some weird content someplace like that, and we can fix those things. But it's surprising a lot of customers come to us and with this real desire, because they've been hacked to have a lot of plugins and we have to walk 'em through.

They we're like, we'll take care of it. You don't have to worry about that anymore. And it works. It's a question I answer a lot about WordPress security. What I found years ago is the reality is most hosts don't secure they don't provide really any security. It's left up to you where we

Yeah.

[00:14:15] David: That's very cool. So do you guys still if I come to you with an idea, but not a website, not an existing website, do you guys help them build it? Or is it, Hey, you gotta come to us with the website?

[00:14:29] Dylan: We can we, it's, you won't find that, on our website you'll find we do help some smaller companies with kind of five page websites.

I typically say to customers is we do a fair amount of work for our customer base. We will not build a site unless someone's a customer. And the reality is. We're not staffed for a lot of web application development and web design. Um,

and so we manage, a handful of projects. Usually they're, it's funny, they're either pretty small, they're five or six websites, or they're incredibly large. And that's just because my background and experience, I've worked with, a thousand different companies at this point and built, many websites.

And so I fit. I'll project manage those and lead those with a team that I assemble to achieve a specific thing. But a lot of what we'll do, so if someone falls outside that or someone brings in a designer, a lot of times what we'll do is I'll provide just at really at no cost or just because they're a customer. An audit of that and help even in the upfront design, just feedback and do's and don'ts and things based on experience. So we do you it's funny, we're very much about service and support, but I train a lot of the people that work with us to make sure that we're, we look at it with a marketing eye and we do provide some feedback.

So we do push the limits of what the services normally include.

[00:16:01] AD: BigPixel builds world class custom software and amazing apps. Our team of pros puts passion into every one of our projects. Our design infused development leans heavily on delivering a great experience for our clients and their clients. From startups to enterprises, we can help craft your ideas into real world products that help your business do better business. 

[00:16:29] David: So looping back to that security conversation we were having a second ago. One of the things I think that's really you brought it up it, that people don't realize is most people think when you got hacked it was because some super ninja coder figured out the intricacies of your site and got into your database and do all the things on the TV shows.

That's 90%. I'm making that number up, but a very high percentage is exactly what you're saying is it's social engineering and they figure out your password. 

That's most of security and I think it's almost a PSA to let people know that the reason your site gets hacked or your anything gets hacked, whether it's your email, whether it's your website, whether it's your app, database, whatever.

The reason you get hacked is because people don't follow the rules and they use password or password1234 or their birthday or whatever, something that can easily be social engineered or use the same password. My son he, we all use one password that's our company runs off of us.

So I'm a big believer in password managers and I'm like, dude, you need a password manager. Just, you just need one. He's man, I just use the same one everywhere. It's just the right thing. It's just so easy. I'm like, oh, dear God. 

[00:17:46] Dylan: Yeah. 

[00:17:47] David: just, and that's so common, right? Is I use the same password.

I remember years ago. There was a, an article, this was at least a decade ago, but this guy, he was a professional journalist, so this was not like some neophyte on the web. He had been using the same password all over the place and through social engineering, they, these guys, whoever they were, got his Twitter password and they knew that most people use the same password.

They bounced and tried and got him in over 20 places, including his bank.

[00:18:19] Dylan: Whew. Yep.

[00:18:20] David: And they just decimated him. He wasn't a wealthy person, but they absolutely stole his identity, the whole thing, all through his Twitter password. And it's just that's crazy. And I get it. There's some sites that you don't care.

Someone hacks you, on your. Silly app or whatever, fine. But your bank like, what's funny is like I say, I don't even know my, you could hold a gun to my head. I have no idea what my bank password is. It's 50 characters long and I have no clue and good luck. And so it's just anyway, that's almost a PSA is.

That's funny how people think. Security is one thing. Now it should be a certain level of security. We do best practices and this, that, and the other, but. There is very little hacking involved in most security.

[00:19:03] Dylan: Yeah, no, it's really, it's really important and the great thing to know is that it's, you can fix it. And I think, I don't know, honestly, if other hosts do this I doubt they do. But the great thing that we have done, like I said, in those three cases are because it's pretty bad.

Where the sites are pointing, it's usually not something that's wonderful, right? They're going to their product pages and it's hopping off to porn or something, and. The reality is it's not as bad as it is if you don't know what to do, but, we can fix those things really quickly. But like I said with, with proper practices and good passwords and another one, and I talk to my family all the time about this too, is just don't click on things. That's where some of it comes from is clicking on or uploading something that you're not aware of. And those things save the majority of issues.

[00:19:50] David: Yeah, the fishing stuff, which is, an old thing. But man, that fishing, so my wife actually just the other day, so we give to compassion.com, which is,

Helping kids around the world and. There is this, they've sent her two of them. The first one almost got her, it was an exact replica of one of their emails, and it said, Hey, you need to update your account information, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Everything was legit. She sent it to me, but all the links went to compassion. Enter IN tl.com, they're compassion.com, and and you wouldn't think, 'cause it didn't even, most of 'em are like, it's like Amazon dot XR four seven do a, yeah, CN dot whatever. This one looked really legit. And I was like, I don't think that's their domain.

And I only know that 'cause I'm a nerd and I look at domain 

[00:20:38] Dylan: Sure. 

[00:20:39] David: Most people would've absolutely gotten just nailed by that. To be fair, I got nailed by one not that long ago. I realized it right after I logged in. I was like, that was not right, and I immediately changed my password. Oh my gosh. But for probably 10 seconds, I was completely, I think that was my PayPal account, which I'm like so stupid.

But anyway, if they could get me, and this is my 

[00:20:59] Dylan: Yeah, I 

[00:21:00] David: they can get anybody.

[00:21:01] Dylan: Yeah, I know. It's not good.

[00:21:03] David: So I call this my blue sky question. If in five years all good things happen, nothing bad. Where is so hq?

[00:21:13] Dylan: So at, so HQ in five years is more than likely, part of a larger company and moving to the next level. So when I started Sunny hq, very different from my experience at the first company that I developed. People used to ask me questions. I, we had just started this company and they used to ask me. What's your exit strategy? And I didn't understand. I was like, I, why would I be thinking about that? I just started this thing, like we got a lot of work to do. And so after 10 years of running that I understood why there's the need for the exit question. So I've also done a lot of personal development in the last 15 years.

And what I am really good at is the beginning, the first, the first five to 10 years, the I am perfectly. Comfortable in the complete chaotic state of starting companies and putting together systems and not really knowing what is to come the thing when things start to run and run really well.

And even, as that starts to scale out to a level, it just doesn't interest me that much. We're I look at the next three years in our growth that we start to look for we've talked to a co couple of companies this year. We're not quite big enough for it to be to be something for us, but we're, my hope is to develop a good relationship with a company that understands the value of really what I think. Will never go away in this world, which is, customer service in this part of, of website hosting and management and, the companies we've talked to have felt that way. And so that's what I look forward to is just the ability to, do that work for them for a year or two, making sure that all the pieces are in place and helping them to scale that to a level where. More and more companies can be comfortable with how their website's hosted and running and just not concerned about it.

[00:23:06] David: So your goal in the next five years would be to grow it and sell it.

[00:23:10] Dylan: Yep.

[00:23:10] David: That's fair. So what is it about those first five years of grimy in the weeds? We call that the slog 

[00:23:18] Gary: master. 

[00:23:19] David: should put that on a business card. Perfect. What is it that attracts you to that? Because most people want, don't want that part.

So what is it that attracts you to that phase of business?

[00:23:31] Dylan: It's the it, part of it's probably the uncertainty. On one side it's the uncertainty of what's to come. I can tell you with the two businesses that I've developed to date, I am. Have a re If I decide to do it, I have a resolve. I figured it out. I know it will work.

So from the very beginning before anyone else was involved with Sunny hq, like I said I built to a point where I was managing about 75 websites and it was not, I was sleeping every night. Okay. It was not like it wasn't a treasury. Now granted, I, there was a lot of things to do and a lot of hats to wear and, but but I'd figured it out and I knew I, it was like this can work.

So now how do we get to the next thing? I enjoy? I enjoy the puzzle side of things. So right now, what does that mean? It means, like for a lot of companies, how do we get more customers? It's no less complex today than it was. It it's simple and no less complex that it's simple and that you've gotta try things.

You've gotta be open to new tools. You can't bank on what worked last year. Especially now with AI and things like coming out. It's important to explore that, but not put all your eggs in that basket. Social media is great, but not for everybody. So the point is it's, it's, for me it's about, as we dial in on that perfect way to get customers, we've, the, that's our, we've solved all the other things. So we've been running long enough that I know if I sign up, for instance, 300 people tomorrow, I could service those people. It would take, maybe I add one more staff member or something like that, but we could do it and we could easily scale to that. So it's in that world of that first five years, it's, it's setting up the brand, it's baking in all of the ideas.

It's fully flourishing and teaching, your employees, that it's, for me it's not about, we're not, yeah, we're hosting a website, but the important thing is this is a. Key part of people's businesses. If it's not working, there's at least one person, if not multiple people, whose day's ruined. So it's, it and we approach it with that importance. And I think, so it's training people to embody that. For me it's taking that on. It's, I know Mike, most of my customers, I know them. I've talked to almost all of them on a semi-regular basis. And it's teaching all those things that, to me, I learned a lot of this.

Honestly, I was a Disney imagineer in my early days for a year. And I learned a lot of these foundational things from Disney. Disney builds unbelievable culture and to me. The company is what its culture is. So I like to build that. And then the rest of the figuring all the things out is interesting once it starts to, it's funny, I've talked to some larger hosts one in Canada earlier this year and talk to them for a few hours. And he said, we just don't think the way you guys do. It's really interesting. And I get it. I don't think the way they do. I

don't People do at GoDaddy, they app, we're in different worlds, but I think it's it's important at some point as we scale to hand off to someone who can be in that mindset and run things a specific way.

[00:26:34] David: That's interesting.

[00:26:35] Dylan: But I enjoy the kind of getting into the process with our customers and helping them understand their websites and why is this doing this and training them you could do it this way and it would work a little bit better. So those are the, the reasons for that. 

[00:26:48] David: Very good. 

[00:26:50] Gary: Well, since you've.

Started a couple businesses and you enjoy that process. What three pieces of advice would you give to a new entrepreneur starting a business?

[00:27:00] Dylan: I think over the experience, not just the offer. I think it's a really important thing to, um, like I said, when I draw on my experiences with Disney thinking about you. Thinking about the why you're doing what you're doing. I don't care if you sell vitamins or protein powder or an iPhone, the reality is I think people want to buy something. And especially when you get into services that they have some connection to. And so I think really. Filling out the entire experience and including that cultural side is really important. I think as they work through the, okay, how do I do it simplify it until it converts. It's a trial and error thing. It's interesting, like I said. A good 20 years now I've been working with my business and thousands of other businesses on the marketing side and the trap today I think is to go out and find someone who says it can only be done this way. In my experience, it's a real danger to believe in that because that assumes that, that approach has, is, it's from a vacuum, right? That assumes that they have sold or marketed the very specific thing that you have in the specific timeline that exists. And that's just not the case.

And so I think. Really testing testing that go to market, testing the marketing side, testing the sales, and being really nimble and pivoting when you need to. And and I guess part of that is, not outsourcing the clarity, right? There's, I don't think there's any one agency that, one of the biggest challenges I think today for a lot of companies and I don't have the solution other than just. Test and try is finding good options for companies that can help them market and, market their businesses and do sales? It's a challenge because I think that in my experience, when I draw on all the years I spent at marketing, the one thing that I think we did better than anything else was we spent a lot of time getting to know our customers and getting to know what it is they were selling. Because if you don't do that, it's like when you hire a salesperson, right? And they're really good at sales and they maybe talk to you or read your website and I can sell that thing. They'll never sell it like you because they don't know it. They don't, you've known it for five or 10 years.

And so like you'll hear, I'm passionate about what we do, so I can sell what we do because I believe in it. If I try to train somebody to do that same thing, the reality is they need to be around for a year to hear all of the ways, because I'm not, the way I look at it, I'm not trying to sell the people that I work with.

I'm trying to introduce them to a possibility and if. If they align with it, that's fantastic, but if they don't, I don't wanna sell somebody something they don't need. So I think it's really important to to really test all of the things that that, that are in the marketplace, whether it's an agency or an AI tool or social media and all these different devices and get some good metrics behind it, and then move in that direction.

[00:30:10] Gary: Awesome. If anybody wants to learn more about you or Sunny hq, where's the best place to reach out and find you?

[00:30:18] Dylan: Sunny hq.io.

[00:30:20] Gary: All right, we will put that in the show notes for anybody.

[00:30:23] Dylan: Awesome.

[00:30:24] David: Thank you so much, Dylan, for joining us. This has been a lot of fun. I appreciate the insights.

[00:30:28] Dylan: Yeah. Thank you guys so much. I appreciate it.

[00:30:30] David: All righty, and on that note, we will be back next week. Thank you everybody. See ya.

[00:30:35] OUTRO: That wraps up this episode of the Biz Dev Podcast, and this time you get me, Scott Bailey. I'm the lead dev over here at Big Pixel, and I know what you're thinking. I thought David did all the work. Well, not exactly. We have an awesome team of people to back in both. Biz Dev is a production of Big Pixel, the US based provider of UX design strategy, and custom software.

This podcast is edited by Audio Wiz Matt McCracken and Christie Pronto marketing guru for Big Pixel. Want to connect? Shoot us an email at hello@thebigpixel.net. Or you can find out some Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, X and LinkedIn.