BIZ/DEV
David Baxter has over fifteen years of experience in designing, building, and advising startups and businesses, drawing crucial insights from interactions with leaders across the greater Raleigh area. His deep passion, knowledge, and uncompromising honesty have been instrumental in launching numerous companies. In the podcast BIZ/DEV, David, along with Gary Voigt, an award-winning Creative Director, explore current tech trends and their influence on startups, entrepreneurship, software development, and culture, integrating perspectives gained from local business leaders to enrich their discussions.
BIZ/DEV
Roll Along with Dr. Adaptation w/ Dr. Jonica Rowland | Ep. 100
In our 100th episode David and Gary talk with Dr. Jonica Rowland, Coach Extraordinaire, about adaptation in all its forms and how you must expand your horizons, be coachable, and communicate to reach new heights of success.
Links:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonicarowland/
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David Baxter - CEO of Big Pixel
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The Podcast
David Baxter has been designing, building, and advising startups and businesses for over ten years. His passion, knowledge, and brutal honesty have helped dozens of companies get their start.
In Biz/Dev, David and award-winning Creative Director Gary Voigt talk about current events and how they affect the world of startups, entrepreneurship, software development, and culture.
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Hi, everyone. Welcome to the biz dev Podcast, the podcast about developing your business. I'm David Baxter, your host, and I am joined as always by Gary Boyd. And I'm not going to make fun of you today, Gary. Why? Because it's our 100th episode.
Gary:I appreciate that. My first.
David:The first break, it took 99 times and 100. But out, I'll pick it up on 101. But that's pretty cool. 100 episodes. That's pretty crazy. I didn't think we'd last this long. Yeah, be honest. I didn't think we'd have enough audience to keep going.
Gary:That's true. I think about 15 or 16. Were like, what are we going to do now? What how do we do this? But I think that's
David:when we started bringing on guests. saving us talking. Yes, right. Let more important people talking about us speaking to more important people. We have Dr. Jonica. Rowland with us today. How are you? Ma'am?
Jonica:I am doing well. I want to be here on your 100th episode.
David:There we go. Special. So you are you're on lots of things. You are the keynote speaker, a business and financial consultant and a business coaches that does that pretty much sums it up.
Jonica:Well, more so consultant, because consultants like telling people what to do. But I can coach him listen as well. I am not Dr. Phil, I'm not Phil man.
David:So I wanted to start us off with this. I saw this on LinkedIn actually. And I thought it was really interesting. I actually brought it up to my team. So there is this movement. And I have I've teenagers, as I've said before, so I have seen this firsthand. But this marketer was saying hey, in the next five years, 10 years marketing as we know it, is going to change dramatically. Why? Because Gen Z, which are people born, I believe, approximately 22,000 to 2020, somewhere in between there. That generation. So they're now in their early 20s. At the at the high end, my child, my children are 17 and 15. And they're both in it. They do not like to talk on the phone at all. They have devices, right? That have a phone like functionality to them,
Gary:which is the least used part of the device.
David:It's never easy. It's to the point like my children, and this is what the article was saying. It's to the point where they are afraid to talk to non family or friends on the phone. Like think about all the things that that means cold calling gone. Appointment setting, gone. Even follow ups and those traditional things a business does is about to be completely shifted. I mean, and a lot of that already has right I think is one from our team said he's a millennial, he's a little older. He said that I hate to be on the phone too. Now you will right on like my children. I mean, my children, we told what was it? Oh, my daughter, she was applying to be at Chick fil A. To get a first job, the employee not to own it or anything. That'd be funny. She was applying to for her first job. And we're like, why don't you just call the hiring manager? There was a question she had. You said like, oh, what? Like, she's almost to tears like, what what? What do you mean call them? That is That is crazy. I would never do that. And that is so interesting. Because to me that I don't have a problem picking up the phone. But I'm old. I get that. But I thought that was really interesting that I thought since you are you consult and you talk to people in business all the time, I thought you might have some interesting takes on that. Do you have any thoughts on that on how business will have to adapt potentially to, to work with this new paradigm that's coming in the next few years?
Jonica:I think is I felt focus on social impact initiatives as well. Because I'm a doctor, not your MD But Doctor Who wants to be in your business. And so that's how this is how we're going to handle the conversation. I believe the schools are going to have have a curriculum on how to speak on phone. Okay. You know, how do you speak on the phone? I know when my children graduated less than a decade ago, their school which was more technological High School, required that they do a grad project before graduating. So they had to present to older people and some peers become older people since you old. I'm not old, I'm just silver. But anyway. They had to speak to their peers and become community professionals and present their grad project. Okay, so Oh, we won't get on the country narratives and whatnot. But we are in the United States of America, we have to keep up with technology times. Whatever is occurring now we have to be competitive not just against USA, but other countries. So therefore, we have to prepare our children on how to speak on the telephone, and people. So
David:your answer would be to make them learn how to adapt that skill. Business shouldn't adapt around the fact that they're afraid of it.
Jonica:Now businesses, my research and what I do focusing on multicultural and multi generational, yes, a business will have to adapt in certain cases, but does the child does that generation wants to have a lower income, if you want to have that income. We as parents, we as schools have to show our children how to market and several arenas is not. They're not two years old, saying my mama, no, no, no, it's grow up in adapt. And since children on adapting I'm not saying I raise perfect children, because I wasn't a perfect parent. When situations such as COVID, came, the pandemic came, adults even had a whole heart problem. So we do not work on these aspects, it's going to cause them a mental health challenge later. And that's what I believe. So businesses and society, they have to work it together.
David:One of the things that my daughter was, I was telling her that I had to meet someone, actually, later this week at a local brewery, they chose to meet there instead of coffee. And she was like, how do you meet people that you don't know? Are you scared? Are you nervous? And I was like, No, I thought that was so interesting, because one she's a very extroverted child anyway, so I thought that was like, she was like, that would make me panic. And I was like, meeting people. My job like, this is what I do. Most of the time is meet strangers. And it's usually very good. It's like our meetings. You know, I've met you once before this, but most of the people who are on podcast I've never met before, like this is, this is what this is. And it's just interesting. Now she is young. But there is I think, and I don't I think you're spot on with COVID. I think COVID Set it back even worse. The kids of this generation, do not converse and talk well in person at all right? It's all virtual all the time. And my kids in particular, they started high school in COVID. And so that very much just hit them right in the face. Right. And so I think, I think it's just really interesting. We're going to have to adapt, I think, as a society, to either bring them up or to bring business to them. It's one or the other, or a little bit of both. But I think it's I think it's just really interesting and what we might be facing, I had not thought of that before. Gary, do you have any thoughts on this?
Gary:Yeah, I think the younger generations have a little bit more of a separation, and social anxiety and social awkwardness. Like there are a few levels back from where when we were growing up, you know, we had telephones, but when we were growing up, we didn't have the majority of our contact being on a device. Sure, I know my daughters who are both teenagers, they can text their friends and their friends and have group text, like, and talk to everybody you know, everything about everyone put two of them in the same car sitting next to each other, and they barely talk to each other. It's weird, I think it's just the comfort factor of knowing they could type they could talk on this thing and not have to see someone's reaction in person that might, if they're afraid they're gonna make a wrong impression. Especially if it's in the case of where your daughter calling a hiring manager at a job she wanted. She's probably too worried about how she's going to come off to that person or what that person might expect to hear from her if she doesn't feel as though she's professional enough. But I think it's just that extra layer of social. I don't think it's a it's not something that can't be learned, like you said, it's just another skill that they have to develop just like we learned how to write resumes, you know, I think they're just going to have to learn how to be more socially available and are going over a phone when necessary,
Jonica:is causing them to be more in depth. whatever environment you're in, you have to adapt. You know, that's, that's just the way it is. They are wanting a job. That is different when someone's trying and nothing to get your money. They need to go through a bunch of loops. But when you're wanting a job, and you're wanting top pay, you have to be marketable. You have to adapt. You know, when I met you, I wouldn't have met you if I didn't walk over to you and say, Hey, I enjoyed your presentation, right? It's not as if you're looking for me, but I wasn't, I wasn't expecting podcasts or anything. I just want because I was intrigued. I have a son in the tech bill. And then I have one who works for a major athletic Corporation. But they had to, once the introvert ones the extrovert, I never knew any of my children were introverts until my oldest son told me, okay, so it's up to the company to make sure they are marketable. They want the top candidates, yes, they do have to adjust some. But just as an A marriage, we have to have some way well, we're going to compromise. You don't get married, and then stop courting each other as people will say, hopefully, I'm not dating myself. But added manner adaptable, is just as the athletes when they learn in sports, they're in the pros. Everyone had to learn how not to speak with the slang that they will speak with that fellow, you know, teammates. That's that's just the way we have to do it. We have to get those take those communication courses, speaking courses in college. But what were you saying, David? This is your show? I'm sorry. I mean, cut you Oh,
David:no, absolutely not. No, I am. I am the least important person here. Well, that's not true. Gary is here as well. But I think what you said is really important, I think it's it comes down to leverage, right? If I am selling you something, I will come to you. So I will not make you call me. Like in that to me, okay, that means cold calls are going to change. Because they know that no one's answering that phone. Right? When Gen Z starts opening their own companies and starts running businesses, they know I call them no one's answering that phone. It's just what they're so I've got to adapt to them.
Gary:I think that shift has already been in place for a few years now. Because I mean, even your phone, your devices will not spam. They won't filter out like the spam calls and stuff like that. So I think the cold calling part of sales is probably already on its way out. Far, I think the interaction with more of inter inside the business, or if you're calling like you said, your boss or someone else that you have to speak to within the business or something that's probably going to be a little bit more prevalent than the call for marketing. Because marketing right now is all geared for mobile devices, especially for that generation. All the products are interested in buying they're seeing on their phone anyway. But if you're if
David:you're a small business owner, which is the audience that we're speaking to right now, this is something you got to pay attention to, because your marketing efforts that you're doing now, are not going to work in a few years. And you need to see that shift and adapt to it earlier rather than later. And you'll see some people doing that. But then what they're relying on is, again, old technology because the people who run it are old. They're my age, right? I'm 45.
Jonica:And you older than me. No, no,
David:that's fair. Gary's older than both of us. Don't worry about it. And but I just, you don't go to email is my point. You know, there. If I'm a 45 year old businessman, and phone's not working, what am I going to do? Well, the only things I know are older tech as well. I'm not going to go make a tic tock video. Even though I'm selling something maybe to a 25 year old, they're on Tik Tok. Dude, you gotta be where they are. And as much as I hate Tik Tok, don't get me wrong, but that's where they are. That's where your audience is. And that's true. It's been true, you know, Facebook and walk down through the years, all the different social medias that have come up and down. But it's interesting. I liked the idea of leverage. If your boss wants to talk to you, you're not texting your boss, you're gonna go into their office because they have all the leverage, right? They have the leverage. If you are selling something, I'm coming to you. So now I'm not going to reach out to you. So if you're a small business owner, just just start thinking about that because we are in the middle of a change. I think millennials started it because they're more hesitant, and I think Gen Z are just going to crush it because they just won't do it.
Jonica:And we won't make this video but you know, the what the movie stars are on strike right now, because they are upset and AI is coming into play. Okay, so a Gen Z. If you don't want to be in competition with AI, you better learn to speak. And then there was a Harvard professor who was saying people can't even that out there applications now because they've been busy texting. So do you want the money on that? Jimsy if you want the money, you need to go watch the YouTube. And the companies who really want the top talent, if they can't speak, are you going to bend them a little bit, and teach them because it is a company's corporate social responsibility to take care of their environment, take care of their employees. But Gen Z, X, Y, and Z, you gotta get in the door first. So what you'd like about that getting in, get your foot in the door, your foot is not even in the door, and you want to text the manager email, don't? Yes.
David:I'm not sure if this is business related. But I think it's funny, you're talking about texting. So I learned maybe a year or so ago. So I when I text I text in full sentences. My mother was an English major. My wife was an English major, I have been beaten down. And I write correctly, I think and go on with this.
Jonica:Well, they raise you well,
David:so I will text full sentences, including punctuation. I will put in a period at the end of my sentences and to my children. I am being super aggressive. Yes, you're 100% angry, which is mind blowing. Like, why are you mad at me? Like if I say, okay, period, dude, I might as well as lit them on fire. I know he's so punished. Well, I know better than that. But it is so interesting how that generation stage. So I'm curious how that will. And there's no way to answer this. But I'm curious how if I've grown up only on the device, and I now have to write full sentences in a email, or in a business fashion, whatever that bit is, if that's on Slack, or whatever, I need to speak to my boss do they have that skill set I don't know I'm my children can write they have the worst handwriting known demand because they picked up a pen like six times our whole life. But it's just interesting. It's just, I don't want to beat this dead horse. I just found that whole thing really fascinating.
Gary:Communication itself is evolving. That's it.
Jonica:I thought of something, you know that they don't want to take it because they tie they can voice takes it, they made it make sure none of those other words, get in there. And you can do it on your laptop and desktop. Now just hit the button. Let it do the talking proofread, then put it on your Google Doc. And let it go ahead and do the grammar the spellcheck, then cut and paste and put it in the email. But once you in the company, you're going to have the slack and the other communication channels anyway. So of course, some of that could be shorthand.
David:Some, but I don't none of my team and we're getting we're all remote. And we live on Slack that is our oxygen. We still write pretty full sentences. I don't there's not a lot of it's not texting. It's not, you know, abbreviations except for lol as you'll see that every once in a while. But it's pretty formal communication in a casual manner if that can be done.
Jonica:So you're saying your team even though you're on Slack, they don't slack?
David:They I mean, we use emojis and we send we send GIFs. But we Yeah, I'm pretty sure is that but is that my fault? I just realized that I mean, I know that the top down is how your culture is built. And I've I write complete sentences. That on excellent.
Jonica:The team is communicating your team is almost like your sales team. They're communicating with customers and all too, right. So
Gary:yeah, but there's definitely a difference. You know, I think with any team, even with like our kids, there's a difference between when you're communicating on a peer to peer level, or when you're communicating to like client facing or business facing. Definitely, you know, you're, you know, to say, metaphorically putting your suit and tie on while you're communicating with the businesses and the customers be a little bit more casual with, you know, fellow employees stuff.
Jonica:So, so you're playing that David's team is afraid to not write proper sentences.
David:I'm wonder if on accident I did that. If I created that on without even realizing it. I don't know. It's just one of those things. You never realize it until I'm a little
Jonica:bit younger than you are. So we went from typewriting to computers to BlackBerry and went through a whole different transition of communicating right now. Telephone. I don't know if you were born.
David:I had one of those. When I was little when I was little.
Jonica:Well say I was a belt and we had Our anyway, we had to learn, we had to adapt, we had to keep up with the times. And and and you have your different generations, you know that baby boomer generation. I want Jenny and Jill to head What I didn't have, you know, so we we are and then you got the generation after. So we're raising people who think they're entitled. However, at the end of the day for business, a small business, they can help or they can't help, how much help can they do to stay in business. So at the end of the day, the bottom line is to make money and not raise Generation Z, right? A small business owner is not the parent. So we have to communicate.
David:I want to take a hard turn because we I don't want to run out of time without talking more about you and what you do. As much as I'm enjoying this. I want to know what exhibit you do. What do you provide businesses when you're talking to them when you're consulting with them? What is what is your bailiwick? Okay,
Jonica:so I'm a business and financial consultant, I started out with benefits back in 2005, I saw small business owners struggling, I was an aspiring sociologist. But now I'm a doctor business. And I believe that business society, social impact, social responsibility is all of what we need to do to have sustainable companies to have a sustainable society to have a sustainable household. So I get into your personal professional business, because the only way to balance out the two is to be sure about your direction, how are you going to map out the plan. And at the end of the day, we have to have strategy and not just talk about it, implementation is what we need to do. Everyone has some gap in their company, that it needs to be filled. Okay, the business owner can't do it all they're trying to do it all. But then something will go slacking and lacking. And at the end of the day, they're losing their passion. And their passion is the reason why they're in business. So I'm here to help that business operate. And let them know that Hi there, you might like bookkeeping. But that's not why you're in business. If it's going to take you 20 hours to do bookkeeping, and five hours for someone else to do it, you need to pay that individual five hours. So you can start losing your focus, losing your vision. So keeping that vision, keeping that mission up front as what I help individuals do. And then on the benefits and financial side, I help individuals focus on that. Because at the end of the day, if there's a disability, if someone dies in that company, and they were the key person of that company, will you go out of business, hopefully you won't go out of business because you made a financial plan. You had benefits disability insurance, you had overhead disability insurance, so you have disability insurance, but your household overhead expense, disability insurance for your business, if someone was to pass away, you have insurance for that so that you can replace that person, or by the amount of business, from the family who inherit to that portion of business so that you can stay in business. If you break leg become incapacitated. Instead of draining your financial resources, you're strategically in place to use your benefits so that you will have retirement later, and wealth later. So at the end of the day, what is your legacy? Do you want to be a business that has failed on business that can thrive and be passed on to the next generation or business where you can retire from? We have to think about the vision with the pandemic was so focused on the now that we forget that we are going to Li ve if you hadn't looked at medical technology. Yeah, I think some people are living longer, no matter how much they stay. People are dying early, there are still people living longer. Right. And those are the people who are going to need money later. So we're focused on on the money. And we're focusing on the sustainability and longevity in the business by filling in gaps and Luco loopholes and making sure that No leaks so that the business can be sustainable.
Gary:Typically, what kind of companies do you work with? Are they small to mid range companies? Are they large companies? Or do you prefer more of like the newer companies that need the assistance more? Or do you also like to do like consulting for some of the larger companies that might just want to freshen up and take another look at their plan and their vision?
Jonica:Yes, I like startups. I do, like startups, but the small to medium sized businesses that are functional, are the companies that will pay you. Okay. And then I do have the capacity to work with larger corporations. But as my social responsibility, corporate social responsibility, I will look at the individual company, assess what the need is to see if it's something that I can take on as a consultant. If not, I have a large enough network to refer them to who they need to be with. Now I have David, okay.
David:Yeah, I'm not sure that's an improvement. But all right,
Jonica:that's so great to meet you, David. But we do have to get out of that fear of holding on to a company or an individual so tightly, so that we can have generated revenue from them, we have to overcome that fear and not be afraid to let go. Because we just can't be an expert in everything.
Gary:Yeah, that seems to be a common thread that we come across on this podcast. Sometimes it's harder for CEOs or entrepreneurs, or the founders to actually give up some of those responsibilities and not, you know, feel so they need to be responsible for all of them sometimes, you know, they just love being able to give them away, and it's the best thing for them and for the company, because, like you said, they get the focus back on the vision and the passion, instead of wasting their time trying to figure out bookkeeping, you know, compliance, HR, any kind of other weird thing that takes up their time. So would you have like three pieces of advice for a new startup or an entrepreneur new business coming in?
Jonica:Yes, my first advice is to focus on the vision and the mission. Before you bootstrap, drain all your funds, make sure you're not trying to start a hobby, make sure you're actually wanting to start a business to meet a need. Because if you're not meeting the need, you will not have any customers, okay? And then the Mi Sol, have a sound foundation for financial needs. Get those benefits. And I say get them. Just as somebody was in a corporation, they will have different types of benefits offered you as the individual owner, go ahead and purchase your benefits so that you will not be homeless later, because of an illness or medical needs, purchase those benefits so that you can keep a savings. And do not be afraid to invent the will. But don't reinvent the wheel. There are a lot of businesses out there that are thriving and surviving. If you need a researcher, um, you researcher, because we learn about those businesses and how they are surviving. So if you're going to do market entry, do your research to make sure there's room for you to enter the market. Okay. Some areas are saturated, some aren't. But you won't know until you do the research. The research has to be done. was making a business survive, you know, what techniques, techniques are they're using? What's keeping them sustainable? What were their weaknesses? You get all the way back to the old SWOT and your strength, your weakness, your opportunities and your threats. If you're not able to do that, we can say business plan all day. But if you do not know your strong points about yourself. And when the lights are turned off, or you forget to pay a phone bill, or death happens, you know, I lost my father and brother 60 days apart in 2018. If I didn't have a strong foundation, if I wasn't taking care of my health, I don't know how I would survive, losing a father 60 days apart. Thank you. Thank you. And so we can talk all day as a culture consult. On, when you live a lot of it, you're able to really help others.
Gary:So, if any of these small businesses do want to get in touch with you and learn a little bit more, just get some of your advice. How could they reach out and get a hold of you?
Jonica:I have LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter. All right, and then email, text, telephone, you can call me I pick it up. Don't give me a ring. That's what they used to say. Give me a ring.
David:Gary, if people want to talk to us, how would they get in touch with us?
Gary:Don't call us that's intrusive? No, I don't want questions. If you have any questions or comments, you can leave them below this video. Or you can email us at Hello at the big pixel dotnet. You can also reach out on any one of our social media channels as well.
Jonica:And they will respond.
Gary:Yes, as a witness you got some way or another.
David:Well, thank you so much for joining us. It's been a lot of fun.
Jonica:Oh, you're so welcome. I'm so happy to be on your 100th episode.
Gary:Thank you to everybody who has ever listened to any one of these fast but thank you anyway, are just playing in the background real low. Just you know, you don't even really have to listen, just keep our numbers up. We just want
David:dulcet tones and leave us a review. All right. All right. We're out of this 100th episode. We're out. Thank you guys so much. We'll see you next week.
Jonica:Thank you
